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Kudos to Cadillac for the foresight to read the writing on the wall.  This of course is in response to Jamie Kitman‘s article “From Northstar To Death Star” on GM decision to shelf its gas guzzling out dated politically incorrect Northstar V8.  Personally I am outraged that Automobile would actually publish such a steaming heap if #$%&.  Does Jamie actually have a pulse?  This kind of thinking is in line with some one that argues that GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!  I for one am of a younger generation, one that strives to not only reward forward thinking but one that actively makes decisions to better the world we live in.  We as a nation need to act NOW so that we can leave behind a habitable earth for generations to come.  For Cadillac to coddle a generation of unconscious old timers is a bad decision in my opinion.  Let the Germans spend the money to develop cars with V8’s for a dwindling niche market and let’s lead the way to a better more eco friendly future.  

Kaspar,

It is that kind of thinking that will kill the U.S. Auto Industry. You fail to understand that there are certain dynamics that make for great cars, and a V8 engine is one of them. You also fail to understand that technology has improved the performance of engines dramatically within the last 50 years. You also fail to take into consideration the effect of your suggestion in economic terms.  

Bentley is still using a derivative of its 1959 6.3 Litre engine developed by Jack Phillips, and re-engineered numerous times both by Rolls-Royce, Vickers Ltd. and now VWAG. Today's engine, according to Chief Engineer Dr. Ulrich Eichorn is 99% more efficient both in terms of output power and emissions than its original derivation. So V8, V10 and V12 engines can put out less emissions and CO/2 than some V6 and smaller displacement engines. V8's also inherently run smoother than many V6 engines.

Yes, as a nation we do need to act now about the future, so that we are not dependent on foreign oil, and that automobiles are not discarded and crushed after ten years, people should be able to drive what they want as long as they want.

But castigating V8 engines is not the way to achieve that goal. You can't haul playwood, contractor material, your entire family plus vacation-baggage in a cramped four cylinder automobile. The entire trucking industry, (and everything that reaches the shelves of a store in this nation at one point rides in a truck) would grind to a halt without larger displacement engines, particularly V8's, just ask UPS/USPS. Nor can you build aspirational automobiles with miniscule engines. No one would buy them, Honda's NSX a case in point---it sold to a marginal market before being discontinued. The auto industry in America provides one in six jobs in the United States, with a huge economic multiplier effect. Do as you say and millions of Americans will lose there jobs. Do you want to drive a foreign car to Wallmart for the rest of your life? Because that is the only kind of job you will have to chose from without a healthy indiginous American Autombile Industry. If you think I am wrong, visit Detroit and take a good look around.

Another reason not to "ban" V8 motors or larger displacement engines as V12's is simply this: If Rolls-Royce were a stand-alone company, it would employ and comprise enough people and suppliers to be as large as Chrysler. Thus the multiplier effect of the wealthy individual buying an "aspirational" automobile is to provide jobs for more than 100,000 people. Those cars also stay on the road for more than 40 years on average, given the survival rates. So materials are used to their maximum economic utility before being replaced. Eliminate those kinds of cars, V8's etc., as you suggest, and many thousands of people will lose their jobs.  

Batteries in Hybrid cars are hugely expensive to manufacture, and also environmentally toxic to dispose of, (and not made in the U.S. because they violate U.S. EPA standards for manufacturing by-product waste disposal). They are the achilles heel of the vehicle, and thus shorten the life-cycle of the car/truck they are installed in, rendering them scrap after a far shorter use period. Plus, the average individual could not afford to replace them without a subsidy from the government/manufacturer. Your Prius, if you deign to own one, will be in the junk-yard long before the standard V8 car wears out. So in effect you are spending your money and economic resources many more times over during the mileage you chose to drive. The net difference in CO/2 emissions negligible for the mileage driven for the average driver vis a vis Prius versus V8 driver. Let's also not forget the fact that the Japanese Government underwrote the cost of the technology, giving foreign competition an unfair advantage against our domestic firms, and this was confirmed by former Toyota Executive Jim Press on April 2. No one could actually afford a Prius if the real price of the car were passed on to the consumer.

Lexus LS460h costs $30,000 more than the standard LS, and you don't get that much more benefit in terms of performance or CO/2 emissions over the life-cycle of the car against a non-hybrid vehicle. You will never offset the cost differential and fuel "unconsumed" for that $30,000 over a decade of driving or more.  Efficient engineering of the original engine is what does the trick, not an "add-on" that makes people think they are doing something which benefits the environment. A better non-hydrid engineered V6 or V8 engine is far more durable than the "glue-on" solution of hybrid, if CO/2 emissions versus cost is your goal. A Honda V6 is a better performer than the Pruis over the life-cycle of both vehicles.

If you think that foreign corporations will solve all the troubles, guess again. American industry must remain paramount if we are to maintain our standard of living and growth for the future. Germans, Japanese, Chinese manufacturers will not have any impetus to manufacture products that benefit our nation if we ourselves are not a strong competitor. Not to mention the fact that without a strong American industry, no one will be able to afford what is made overseas. You can work at low paying low skilled jobs for the rest of your life if you chose, and enjoy a third-world standard of living, but I for one refuse catagorically to allow that within the confines of my career and my life.

I take extreme exception to what you say, though your sentiments express what many people think is correct. You are not looking at all the facts, just some of them.

DouglasR  

Oh Boy!!

Douglas, thank you for your well thought out reply.  Before I hit the post button earlier I took a deep breath and said “here goes”.  I fully expected that my post would ruffle some feathers though I didn’t expect a tome.  Certainly you present some very good points however I think that the core issue has been somewhat diluted and felt the need for clarification of my position on V8’s in cars issue, and that of a new generation of car buyers.

Probably the best way to express my thoughts and how I have come to these conclusions is to start with a little background.  I sensed an undercurrent in the response that I might be a hemp wearing Prius driving automotive novice.  This actually is pretty far from my reality.  Truth be known I actually currently have 3 V8’s in my possession (one is for sale) in addition to a turbo 4 cylinder and a turbo 5 cylinder.  I subscribe to numerous car magazines and read them from cover to cover.  Yup I’m a car guy!  I have been buying, selling, fixing, and philosophizing since I was 15.  I have owned more vehicles then I can count and am respected by my peers as a pretty darn good shade tree mechanic.  Enough said, I am only going to such great lengths because my gut tells me you come from a similar die.

For starters my commentary is more specifically about sedans with V8’s not so much trucks that actually utilize the benefits of a large motor.  However my job dictates that I drive hundreds of miles every week and one thing that really gets me down is day in and day out seeing a single individual at the helm of a 5000 pound plus vehicle rumbling down the road burning more then their fair share of dead dinosaurs, and for what?  After much thought (I have a lot of time to think, like I said I drive a lot) I blame the media!  This is what is fed to us as the good life.  This is the crux of my previous post, for Jamie to go on some tirade about a decision by GM to institute some change’s that I feel are much needed is flat wrong.  Are you insinuating that GM got to be one of the largest auto manufactures by repeatedly making bad decisions?  Possibly the brass at GM is starting to look to the future and is coming to the realization that in order to survive and be a viable brand down the road some things are going to need to change now.  Then on the other hand we have bone heads resisting their every move ie. “Northstar to death star”.  Let’s for the sake of argument spin the issue of Cadillac shelving its V8.

NORTHSTAR TO ECO STAR

We here at Automobile mourn the lose of the beloved Northstar V8.  This could be a sign of a changing buying demographic in the wake of $4.00 for a gallon of gas and a tumultuous economy.  It would appear as though GM is making some hard decisions that could really impact the way Americans perceive their most prided brand.  Most certainly this is a sign of some changes to come, with a new line up of ECO series motors that produce similar H.P. and in our opinion provide seamless smooth power GM’s flag ship model will offer an enhanced level of luxury yet deliver an expected 30% increase in gas mileage.  This truly is an American Revolution!  GM is really making some big steps by acting on their credo “Gas Friendly to Gas Free” and I have to say this just may be a good starting place in this ever competitive marketplace.  Yada… Yada… Yada…

There certainly are applications that warrant the use of a V8.  Is a car that simply transports a couple of individuals to town one of them? In my opinion NO.  Personally I utilize my 1.8 liter tiny tiny car for the rigors of every day driving getting me from point A to point B, I often get compliments on my little rocket and people say I wish I could get gas mileage like that (30+ city driving).  Typically I use somewhere around 12 gallons of gas a week depending on where I need to go.  I live in the mountains of Colorado and often need to haul stuff, for that I use my V8 ford 4x4.  I wouldn’t fathom wasting the gas to just drive my truck for no good reason other then to get me somewhere.  Believe it or not I am not alone with this sort of thinking.  I suspect that GM sees this as well.  Now if the MEDIA could just get on board and reward environmentally good decisions we all will be in a better place today and for generations to come.

Kaspar  

Kitman was right in his article about Cadillac's decision to abandon the V8.  Sometimes you have to wonder about GM, the company.  How are you going to proclaim "Standard of the World" with substandard powerplants.  Granted that the 3.6 liter engine is very good.., and I'm sure that with forced induction that it will be a powerful engine.., but not for a Cadillac.

It has taken GM a long time to get Cadillac back to respectability.  Don't mess up a good thing by settling for the mediocre.  ALL of the respectable automakers produce a V8 for their luxury lines.  How does GM plan to offer a luxury car with only a V6?  This is exactly the sort of decision making that pushed Cadillac out of competition in the 70's and 80's.  Word to GM.., Build Caddy a V8.  

I am siding with Kitman here. Cadillac has been on a roll. GM would be foolish to not allow Cadillac to engineer its own powerful, yet efficient V-8 of its own. Without such an engine, Cadillac has no chance against BMW, M-B, or Audi, not to mention the new customers they have gained.
GM would effectively kill the brand in my opinion, and erase all the ground they have covered in becoming a respectable brand again.  

This is a reply to the guy who was going on and on and on about how we need V-8's...umm check out 99% of the world man, they don't have 'em....they have I-4 / I-6 Turbo Diesels in their delivery vehicles, ask DHL/UPS what they think of the Sprinter...they have I-5/I-6....even the cab over box trucks from Mitsu/Izuzu have I-4/I-6....Heck even lots of huge huge huge huge vehicles have I-6, true they are 6 litres plus, but the I-6 is a better design than a v-8, but i digress, people who say that we need V-8's are misinformed, and have probably never, ever left the USA/Canada.  But dont worry, our gas just passed $1US/Liter, which means that before we were paying 1/2 of our european friends, now we are paying 80%-90% what they do, yet we insist on stupidly heavy cars that can go from 0-60 in 6 seconds tho they are a family sedan...do we really need these cars in such large numbers? I understand some race cars / luxo-mobiles but our top selling sedans are way too fast for our own good, esp with kids.  

DouglasR, I have to agree with you except on two points:
One: A four cylinder w/supercharger can make a great car. It won't haul Home Depot, but it can haul a family.  Miata or Civic anyone?
Two: I don't care whether my car is forgein or not, so long as it is a good car. I am no loyalist, although you appear to be, because most Japanese cars are better, through price or performance at the moment (and I do mean at the moment).  

Nonsense.  V8s are table stakes in the premium market.
 
A question: did anyone call the marketing dept?  How could you put so much into the great positive exposure for the CTS-V with a performance V8, then ban the type?

"Oh, we can use a turbo 6 to do all this?"  

Right -- if you're Fiat.

This is CADILLAC, flagship of the GM lines.  Luxo/sport flagships are not sold as "car(s) that simply transport a couple of individuals to town".

If you have trouble with V8s, then attack the entire premium market; all the players live by them.  
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Graduate, Rodan School of Automotive Design

Hi, All,

I just stumbled upon this thread today and thought I would just mention that, although Cadillac will not have a modern DOHC V-8, the division is still gonna give us a very powerful, automobile (not SUV) V-8 engine soon, in the CTS-V. The LS9 supercharged 6.2L V-8 is being built by hand, like Mercedes-Benz's AMG division does, at GM’s Performance Build Center in Wixom, Michigan. Cadillac released the output figures the other day, and they're very impressive: 556 horsepower at 6100 rpm and 551 lb-ft of torque at 3800 rpm. This derivation of the GM small-block promises to be one helluva powerplant.
Joe DeMatio
Automobile Magazine